Why do white nationalists get so touchy when racial science is discussed from a genetic standpoint?

[kane - THE NEXT GENERATION]

So, what do you think?

[Narcissus Flanders]

So, what do you think?

Delete this gay poll, that's what I think.

[O'Zebedee]

Voted for everything.

[kane - THE NEXT GENERATION]

It's public, so we can see that.

[Narcissus Flanders]

It's public, so we can see that.

Thanks for pointing that out, Kane, what should we do without you?

[Lenny]

Kane I thought you supported nationalism, why do you constantly agitate in favor of pan-Caucasoid'ism (at least indirectly).

[kane - THE NEXT GENERATION]

No I advocate in favor of NATIONALISM. Old school nationalism.

I'm not pan anything. Not pan-european, not pan-caucasoid.

I just debunk oudated racial theories and "innovative" racial theories.

[Lenny]

I'm not pan anything. Not pan-european, not pan-caucasoid.So what is the purpose in playing-up real and/or supposed European and non-European-Caucasoid genetic proximity?

[kane - THE NEXT GENERATION]

Because many people strongly believe that the opposite is the case, and it's important to distinguish my race realism from their white nationalism.

[kane - THE NEXT GENERATION]

I can't help but notice that racial socialism (internationalism) is becoming more common on the internet. But I am old school, a racial nationalist, who supports each nation operating 100% independent. People confuse me sometimes.
Yes friendship between nationalists, but not racial internationalism.

Yeah its easier to call for white unity behind the computer screen, but I think the only honorable thing to do is fight things like the EU. If there was a Mediterranean union, I would fight it too, even though I believe in a Mediterranean race that includes both Jews and southern Europeans. Even in a case where Jews were included into the unity, a middle eastern union, a Mediterranean union, a Caucasoid union, I would still fight it.

[Lenny]

Because many people strongly believe that the opposite is the case, and it's important to distinguish my race realism from their white nationalism.Pardon my lack of understanding, but wouldn't the above (deconstructing 'WhiteNationalism') be accomplished better by playing-up real and/or supposed differences between European groups, rather than tossing everyone into a big PANF-style pot by saying they are all genetically very similar. I would think the latter goes against your goal, if anything.


Also, genetics is not even that significant. If the raw black African has genetic a distance from a European of 100, Neanderthals probably had 1,500 or more. Yet Neanderthal-admixture among a white population would probably not alter the basic character of the population (how people look, 'phenotype'); whereas African (even though far closer genetically), would. Neanderthals phenotypically were "white".

[kane - THE NEXT GENERATION]

Well I'm pointing out that the Caucasoid race has genetic drift all over it. But the drift happens just as much inside Europe as it does outside of Europe. So yeah there's drift from Lebanon to Greece (a little bit) but there's even more drift from Greece to Russia.

[Narcissus Flanders]

I'm a white nationalist. I think there are a lot of differences between several European groups who can be considered white. Despite these differences I have no problems with white immigrants belonging to another group of white people migrating to my country as long as they learn the language and behave. I these days of swarth I have other things to worry about.

[Winston]

I hadn't noticed any touchiness.

Speaking of touching.
http://i34.tinypic.com/dvr0wj.jpg

[kane - THE NEXT GENERATION]

If you want to understand my ideology, just imagine a GIANT hammer, and imagine the hammer smashing down on the concepts of political correctness, globalism, and multiculturalism.

[apocales]

What race are you today Kane?

[kane - THE NEXT GENERATION]

When have I ever shown any inconsistency in what I report as my ethnic background?

The only thing I learned that was I'm more Polish than originally thought. I was rumored to have just a tiny amount of German, 1/16, but the Rumor was discredited by an intensive family tree.

The Russian Jewish part still exists, and the Moldavian/Besserabian part still exists.

So I have no reportable western European ancestry. And I never alleged that I did. So what changed?

[kane - THE NEXT GENERATION]

Vinny, if you knew one thing, I have a reputation as a no nonsense guy who says exactly what he means. I don't have an ixabert style "make it up as I go" personality. Even my sworn enemies have acknowledged that I'm basically honest, they just don't like my personality type.

Asking "what race are you today" is something you should be asking Ix who once labeled himself Korean and has switched back and forth on whether or not he is Jewish, and to what extent he is Jewish. It is not a question you should be asking me, as I have stuck closely to the same story from the beginning, and am considered "frank" and "brutally honest" by most of even my enemies.

The fact that I omitted by Jewishness and labeled myself "Eastern European" from the beginning on the phora is not a contradiction. Russian Jews are Eastern Europeans. The fact that I didn't specify what type of Eastern Europe, and didn't call myself Jew because I don't follow the religion, doesn't change the fact that the ancestry was always there. The fact that I then downplayed it for a while is easily explained by not wanting to be the center of the attention. I never labeled myself "anglo-saxon," "irish," "german," etc etc etc, so don't act like I said one thing and then changed it.

[apocales]

When have I ever shown any inconsistency in what I report as my ethnic background?

The only thing I learned that was I'm more Polish than originally thought. I was rumored to have just a tiny amount of German, 1/16, but the Rumor was discredited by an intensive family tree.

The Russian Jewish part still exists, and the Moldavian/Besserabian part still exists.

So I have no reportable western European ancestry. And I never alleged that I did. So what changed?

You look Romanian.

[kane - THE NEXT GENERATION]

To big vinny. Here is rock solid proof that Eastern European Jews are different than Western European Jews.

http://www.jogg.info/11/coffman.htm
Eastern vs. Western Ashkenazim



One important discovery made in Behar’s (2004a) study is the apparent differences in mtDNA haplogroup frequency between various Ashkenazi populations, particularly between eastern and western Ashkenazim. Behar divides the various Ashkenazi populations as follows: French Jews, German Jews, Austrian Jews, Lithuanian Jews, Polish Jews, Romanian Jews, Russian Jews, and Ukrainian Jews.



One apparent difference is that eastern Ashkenazim, particularly Polish Jews, appear to have as great a diversity of mtDNA haplotypes as Middle Eastern and European populations. Thomas (2002) had noted this feature in the Ashkenazi results in his own study. Some of these haplotypes do not appear at all among the western Ashkenazim. In fact, the western Ashkenazim display a remarkably low diversity of haplogroups and haplotypes, much lower than that seen in either eastern Ashkenazim or non-Jewish European/Middle Eastern groups. Haplogroups that appear in eastern Ashkenazi, but are rare to absent in western Jewish groups, include HV*, HV1, pre-HV1, J1, J2, U1-6, W, V, and certain sub-clades of H (Behar et al; 2004a, Supplementary Material).



This would strongly favor an independent founder hypothesis among these populations. It would appear that the Ashkenazim share a common set of founders of both European and Middle Eastern origin, while a separate group of maternal founders entered the population of eastern Ashkenazi communities sometime during the Diaspora.



The fact that some of these mtDNA groups are rare to absent in western Ashkenazi populations argues in favor of a post-Diaspora European origin. Furthermore, many scholars believe that Eastern European Jewry has its genetic basis among the western Ashkenazim; Eastern communities were founded when Jews migrated from Germany and France after the 12th-13th centuries. Certain mtDNA haplogroups shared between the two populations, for example N1b and K, indicate that the eastern Ashkenazi communities do indeed share some common mtDNA genetic history with western groups, some of probable Middle Eastern origin. Yet it also appears that eastward moving Ashkenazim absorbed a number of separate European maternal founders once they settled in Eastern Europe. This absorption would explain a number of mtDNA haplotypes that Behar identifies as European in origin and are restricted primarily to eastern Ashkenazim, in particular, U5 and V. It may also explain the high frequency of mtDNA haplogroup J, as well as a number of H sub-clades, that are not present in the western groups.

Jon Entine reaches a similar conclusion in his book Taboo.

[Lenny]

So, what do you think?http://stumbleinn.net/forum/showpost.php?p=107591&postcount=14

[kane - THE NEXT GENERATION]

lol I consider mediterraneans to be a more archaic type of Caucasoid but still someone with a caucasoid bone structure.

I consider upper paleothics to be the next evolution. They were born in south asia, with Iraq and Iran being divided by strong borders.

I believe Europeans are a mix between the two. The east is closer to the UP and the west is closer to the meds. The central is intermediate.

I believe physically nords are just depigemented meds, but underneith the physical appearnce is a good amout of UP dna.

I believe depigmentation also occurs in eastern europe, but not with a mediterranean bone structure.

[Lenny]

lol I consider mediterraneans to be a more archaic type of Caucasoid but still someone with a caucasoid bone structure.

I consider upper paleothics to be the next evolution. They were born in south asia, with Iraq and Iran being divided by strong borders.

I believe Europeans are a mix between the two. The east is closer to the UP and the west is closer to the meds. The central is intermediate.

I believe physically nords are just depigemented meds, but underneith the physical appearnce is a good amout of UP dna.

I believe depigmentation also occurs in eastern europe, but not with a mediterranean bone structure.I don't mean this to be insulting, but I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. None of what you wrote registers in my brain as making sense.

[Zed]

You need to spend more time on Skadi and Biodiversity forums. What he said makes perfect sense, actually. :)

[anunnaki]

Where's the Johnson/Mah crew! poll option?

[Wotan]

I think some of these options on WN's are valid.

Ask a White Nationalist what they mean by 'White', and you'll get a vague answer or no answer at all.

To my mind, WN'ism is driven by the Celts and Latins in the southern states, because they could never be National Socialists.

[kane - THE NEXT GENERATION]

I think some of these options on WN's are valid.

Ask a White Nationalist what they mean by 'White', and you'll get a vague answer or no answer at all.

To my mind, WN'ism is driven by the Celts and Latins in the southern states, because they could never be National Socialists.

LOL

A lot of Irish people are kkk and wn now, despite the fact that they would have been racially discriminated against by the REAL kkk.

[Arrow Cross]

Where's the Johnson/Mah crew! poll option?
[...]

[Wotan]

LOL

A lot of Irish people are kkk and wn now, despite the fact that they would have been racially discriminated against by the REAL kkk.

I think it may also have something to do with the WW2 and the Holocaust. Now that the Holocaust has been proven to be a fairy tale, America (along with the Britain and France) stand to BECOME the villains of 20th century peace. Which is quite the opposite of what most Americans have believed and preached since WW2.

Ever notice how the Confederates hang their flag side by side with the Swastika ?

[kane - THE NEXT GENERATION]

I think its funny because I already detailed how the klan and nazis, the real klan and real nazis, had differing opinions on many issues.

[Wotan]

Another thing that gets on my nerves. Is how White Nationalist use National Socialist material for there political agenda.:nono:

[Zed]

Another thing that gets on my nerves. Is how White Nationalist use National Socialist material for there political agenda.:nono:

Yeah, me too. :agree:

[Zed]

I think it may also have something to do with the WW2 and the Holocaust. Now that the Holocaust has been proven to be a fairy tale, America (along with the Britain and France) stand to BECOME the villains of 20th century peace. Which is quite the opposite of what most Americans have believed and preached since WW2.



Bollocks, you simple-minded twat. The Holocaust wasn't the reason any of the Allies went to war, and no-one has ever claimed that it was. :nono:

[kane - THE NEXT GENERATION]

The thing is, WN's define metaphysical reality in terms of Jews. To WNs, Jews manipulate and control the world through intimidation and they seriously believe this. The ultimate fantasy of a WN is to engage a Jewish organization in debate and "win" the debate. Sorry, even legitimately friendly people like Prozium seem to act this way too.

Forums like the phora honestly believe they are martyrs against oppressive Jews and the fact that the adl mentioned them with a tiny post only makes them think they are more important. They overestimate the importance of Jews and consequentially overestimate their own importance. But the truth is that they are noticed by Jews only because they are explictly anti-Jew, NOT because the Jewish warlords with super powers are out to get them.

[Loving Bledsoe]

Forums like the phora honestly believe they are martyrs against oppressive Jews

I feel that way every time I have to read one of your idiotic posts.

[anunnaki]

So, what do you think?

Seriously, who cares. Maybe genetics prove that wogs and Jews are the same race as whites. What difference will it make in the real world?

[Official Sasha Fan Club]

<Белый Национализм> это американизм. Во первых, <Белого Раса> нет, во вторых, даже когда притворяешь, что <Белый Рас> на самом деле есть, это не <нация>. <Белый Национализм> :ameritard: :rolleyes: это какое-то усилие американцев возместить за то, что они ублюдские подонки. Занимаются этим идиотизмом только жалкие раненые уроды.

[Johnny Bravo]

Seriously, who cares. Maybe genetics prove that wogs and Jews are the same race as whites. What difference will it make in the real world?

:spank:

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/1580/jewpc1kh3.jpg

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/5232/jewpc2ev4.jpg

[Alia]

Where'd you get that, Johnny?

[Loving Bledsoe]

Where'd you get that, Johnny?

And what is an "Almost Jew"?

[Alison]

And what is an "Almost Jew"?

An almost Jew is our good friend, Mmmmmaaarrr....

because..

he's a complete nutjob.

he uses vile language

he has half a beard

he writes these screeds that causes my scroll wheel on my mouse to say, "Jeez, woman, can't you pick better posts to scroll over? You're wearing my ballbearings out!!! DAMNIT!"

See?

[kane - THE NEXT GENERATION]

The truth is that Coon was right about the two point origin of Caucasoids - Upper Paleolithic and Mediterranean - and showing that Europe drifts on that spectrum doesn't make "Europeans" (if there is such a group) a separate race. It just makes them genetic links between the two extremes showing gradual DNA drift and overlapping on the borders. In other words, European genetic material mainly comes from South Asia and the Middle East, not subsequent mutations. And Europeans themselves show a degree of variation and yes, overlap with those continents.

[anunnaki]

It makes no difference. The phenotypes vary enough for most people to consider Euros radically different from MEs/SAs.

[Zed]

Which they are. They'll develop tests that distinguish between them sooner or later

[kane - THE NEXT GENERATION]

You can "distinguish" between two different types of Euros too or between two different family members in the same family. It's still the same race. Physically, many southern Europeans look more like Middle Easterners than they do like Northwestern Europeans. The East Caucasus looks like South Asia. Everyone else is just a mutt. Simple as that. Geography and language determine the degree of muttness proportions, but they're all unequivocally mutts from DNA that exists from Coon's correct two point origin - Upper Paleolithic (south asian) and Mediterranean.

The issue of depigmentation is a small one. Many genes cause people to have pigmentation, and if one of those genes is non-existent, people lose pigmentation (like many Chinese people are light-skinned). All it takes is a single mutation.

[Zed]

You can "distinguish" between two different types of Euros too or between two different family members in the same family. It's still the same race. Physically, many southern Europeans look more like Middle Easterners than they do like Northwestern Europeans. The East Caucus looks like South Asia. Everyone else is just a mutt. Simple as that. Geography and language determine the degree of muttness proportions, but they're all mutts.

Yeah, but the tests will get better as time goes on. You can call them clusters instead of races, but they will be able to sort people into different groups reliably.

[kane - THE NEXT GENERATION]

I don't deny this.

But the reliable way to do it is not a binary system - "European" and "non-European."

You can test someone's dna and reliably match them to a nationality and even a family within a nationality.

[kane - THE NEXT GENERATION]

I'm basically saying this:

There are no "Africans."
There are no "Asians."
There are no "Europeans."

There are quite frankly, Negroids, Mongoloids and Caucasoids. It's true that Europeans tend to form a middle ground (to varying degrees) between the two extremes of the Caucasoid race, but as a whole, the genetic input still is not indigenous to Europe, only preserved and mixed at varying proportions for each nationality.

[kane - THE NEXT GENERATION]

Here is a good article. It backs my position from what I've seen from DNA studies and linguistic evidence, that "aryans" were born in South Asia and then migrated to Europe. Not the other way around as taught by nordicists! Plus Europeans (particularly Southern Europeans and less particularly western Europeans) have partial Arabian roots too but this is just focusing on the South Asian part. It makes no difference that some Indians today are obviously mixed with non-white blood; that doesn't disprove the indigenous origins.

http://www.vijayvaani.com/FrmPublicDisplayArticle.aspx?id=322

“An unknown Indian has taken on proponents of the Aryan invasion/migration theory, demolished their case, and established that northern India is the original home of the Aryans and the Indo-European family of languages. The importance of this remarkable achievement cannot be exaggerated. In course of time, it can compel the revision of the history not only of Indian but also world civilization.”

That was Girilal Jain in his masterful review of Shrikant G. Talageri's ‘Aryan Invasion Theory and Indian Nationalism,’ published in 1993. Since then, Talageri, a not-so-unknown Indian now, has come up with two more works. His ‘The Rigveda: A Historical Analysis’ (2000) established that Vedic Aryans were inhabitants of the area to the east of Punjab, traditionally known as Aryavarta; that the region of Saptasindhu formed the western periphery of their activities and that the Aryans migrated from the east to the west within India and beyond it. For this, he relied solely on a detailed analysis of the Rigveda.


His latest book, “The Rigveda and the Avesta: the Final Evidence,” seeks to prove conclusively beyond all reasonable doubt that India was the original homeland of the Indo-European family of languages, that the Rigvedic people were settled in areas around and to the east of the Sarasvati river in at least the third millennium BCE if not earlier, that the proto-Iranians who later became Zoroastrians were settled in the areas to the west of the Vedic Aryans, and that both started expanding westward around that period.


As the name of the book suggests, Talageri collects, collates and compares a massive amount of evidence from the Rigveda and the Avesta and also marshals undisputed recorded facts from Mesopotamian history about the Mitanni and the Kassites to support his conclusions. He relies on non-controversial data such as names of people, animals and places, and on the provenance and numerical frequency of their occurrences, rather than subjective interpretations of esoteric texts.


We teach our children even today as settled facts that nomadic Aryans invaded/migrated to India around 1500 BCE, destroyed the Indus Valley culture and began what is known as the Vedic Age, and produced Rigveda around 1200 BCE. However, this is only a theory, and an extremely weak one at that.


That there is not a shred of evidence for it in either the ancient literature or archaeology, that it is based on nothing more solid than some striking similarities among the Indo-European languages, that there is an overwhelming body of solid evidence against it, and that even the linguistic data supporting it can be better explained by an alternative opposite theory, has not daunted its proponents who are deeply entrenched in the academia, media and, worst of all, in politics.


Originally cooked up by 19th century European scholars to serve the interests of India’s colonial masters, the theory has now been appropriated by current political ideologies whose sole purpose is to keep India weak, divided and confused. It is used to deepen and exploit regional, linguistic and racial cleavages in Indian society, deny nativity and originality to Hindu civilization, and justify later invasions: if Aryans came from outside, how can the Hindus cavil at Muslim or European invaders?


This is not the first time that the Aryan Invasion Theory has been disproved. It has been demolished several times over in the past. Talageri’s specialty is that he uses only objective, non-controversial and verifiable data from ancient texts to support his conclusions.


Talageri’s point of departure is the internal chronology of the Rigveda. The Rigveda, the oldest book in the world and the most primary source of knowledge about ancient India, consists of 1028 hymns divided in ten Books, or Mandalas. The composition of these hymns, their collation and compilation in the present form, must have been a gradual process stretching over a vast geographical expanse, spanning several centuries if not millennia, and involving generations of seers, kings and other actors.


The Rigveda itself provides strong and massive internal evidence that all of it was not composed at the same time. There is general agreement among scholars that Books II to VII, known as family books, are older, whereas Books I, VIII, IX and X came later. The family books are composed either entirely (as in the case of Book VI) or almost entirely (as in Books III and VII) by seers of a single family; or entirely (as in Books IV and II) by the members of a single family with a few hymns composed by a family related to them; and they use simple meters.


But among the family books, Book V is regarded as the latest. Descendants of composers of other family books are composers of hymns in this Book; and although it belongs to the Atri family, it has composers from as many as six families. In meters, it uses mainly four-line Anushtup in preference to the three-line Gayatri which is more prominent in older family books; the five-line Pankti meter makes its appearance here. These characteristics become stronger in later Books. Book I, VIII, IX and X, for instance, each has hymns composed by seers from many families, and uses not only the five-line Pankti, but also the six-line Mahapankti and the seven-line Sakvari. And personalities and events of the earlier Books are referred to as belonging to the distant past and so on.


In ‘The Rigveda: A Historical Analysis,’ Talageri has analysed the internal evidence in great detail and established the detailed chronological order of all ten Books as follows: Books VI, III and VII are the oldest (Early Books), followed by Books II and IV (Middle Books) and then come Books V, I, VIII, IX and X (Late Books) in that order.


However, his argument in the present book is not dependent on this detailed chronology. The generally accepted division by scholars of the ten Books into Old Books (II, III, IV, VI, VII), and Late Books (I, V, VIII, IX and X) is enough to support his argument.


That argument can be simply stated. Rigveda and Avesta have a lot in common—names of people, animals, meters, geography. However, the Early Books of Rigveda have very little in common with Avesta, while the Middle Books have a little more. But it is the Late Books of Rigveda that have a lot in common with Avesta, pointing to a period of contemporary development.


Take just one example. The Early Books have few Iranian names: two related kings (Abhyavartin Cayamana, Kavi Cayamana), one priest (Kavasa) and four tribes (Prthu/Parthava, Parsu/Parsava, Paktha and Bhalanas). All these names occur only in three hymns; none of these names of persons or tribes finds any reference in the Middle or Late Books. The three hymns pertain to the historical battles in the Early period and these names refer to enemy Iranians then located in the eastern and central Punjab. Besides, there is a hymn which mentions a sage Usana and his father Kavi Bhargava who played a very important role in the later mythology built on Indo-Iranian conflicts. All these names have equivalents in the Avesta.


In the Middle Books, we find names of four sages, which are not mentioned at all in the Early Books, but find numerous mentions in the Middle and the Late Books and are referred to in Avesta as well. They are: Turviti, Gotama, Trita and Krsanu; in the Avesta they are called Taurvaeti, Gaotama, Thrita and Keresani. All these personalities are Vedic and pre-Zoroastrian. Taurvaeti in the Avesta is an early figure, the father or the ancestor of Fracya (Yast 13.115). Thrita is specifically mentioned in Yasna 9.10 as an ancient personality belonging to a period far earlier to Pourushaspa, the father of Zarathustra.


But the main case rests on dozens of names and name-elements common to the Rigveda and the Avesta. These Vedic name elements like asva, ayana, rta, rna, atithi, brhad, ratha, syava, sura, and names such as Yama, Krishna, Aptya, Vrsni, Varaha, Vivasvat, Atharvan, Kashyapa have their equivalents in the earliest parts of the Avesta, but they are found exclusively in the Late Books and hymns of the Rigveda, and in later Vedic and Sanskrit texts.


To sum up, the Early and Middle Books have only 8 hymns containing these name-elements common to Avesta, and all eight of these hymns are identified as late or interpolated by ancient text Aitareya Brahmana or by western scholars like Oldenberg. On the other hand, the Late Books have no fewer than 386 hymns containing such name-elements.


Apart from names and name-elements, there is the evidence of the development and use of meters used in various hymns of the different Books. The earliest hymns in the Avesta, the Gathas, composed by Zarathustra, use the six-line Mahapankti meter, which is used only in the Late Books of the Rigveda. On this parameter also, the evidence points to the same conclusion: the common development of the joint Indo-Iranian culture represented by these two sacred books took place in the period of Late Books of Rigveda. The Early and the Middle Books of Rigveda belong to a period which is older than the period of the development of this joint culture.


The next question is: in which area were the Early and the Middle Books composed? Where were the Vedic Aryans living in the period before the development of this joint Indo-Iranian culture?


The geographical evidence of Rigveda is very clear and unambiguous. It shows that the Vedic Aryans, in the period of the Early and the Middle books, were inhabitants of interior parts of India, to the east of river Sarasvati and were only just expanding into and becoming acquainted with areas further west.


The geographical horizon of the Rigveda extends from (at least) western Uttar Pradesh in the east to eastern and southern Afghanistan in the West. Let us divide it in three regions: the eastern region comprising the Sarasvati and areas to its east, mainly modern Haryana and western UP; the western region comprising the Indus and areas to its west, mainly the Northwest Frontier Province of Pakistan, Afghanistan and contiguous areas of southern Central Asia; and the central region comprising Saptasindhu or Punjab between the Sarasvati and Indus.


The eastern region is clearly known to the whole of the Rigveda. Copious references to the rivers such as Sarasvati, Drshadvati, Hariyupiya, Yavyavati, Ashmanvati, Yamuna, Ganga, places such as Ilayaspada, Kikata, and animals such as elephant, buffalo, peacock and spotted deer are scattered all over the Rigveda, but particularly in the Early books.


In sharp contrast, the western region is totally unknown to the Early Books, only very newly familiar to the Middle Books, but quite familiar to the Late Books. The western places (except a solitary reference to Gandharva in a late hymn), animals, lakes and mountains are totally unknown to the Early as well as the Middle Books, and exactly three rivers are mentioned in Book IV, which represents the western-most thrust of the Vedic Aryans in the Middle period.


The late books, on the other hand, are strewn with references to rivers such as Sindhu, Amitabha, Rasa, Svetya, Kubha, Krumu, Gomati, Sarayu and Susoma; places such as Gandhari, mountains such as Arjikya and Mujawat, lakes such as Saryanavat, and animals such as Bactrian camel, Afghan horse, mountain sheep, mountain goat and boar.


Most interesting are the references to the central region—the Saptasindhu or Punjab between Indus and Sarasvati. Very significantly, the Nadi Sukta lists the rivers from the east to the west. Book VI, the oldest book, does not know any of the five rivers of Punjab. The second oldest book, Book III, mentions only the two easternmost rivers—Vipas (Beas) and Sutudri (Sutlej). The third oldest book, Book VII, mentions Parushni (Ravi), the third river from the east, with reference to the Battle of Ten Kings in which the non-Vedic enemies figure as western people of the fourth river Asikni (Chenab). Even the phrase Saptasindhu first appears in the Middle Books.


Significantly, Iranian texts also confirm the movement of the Anu-s (an Aryan clan that later became Iranians) from the east to the west. The first chapter of Vendidad lists 16 holy lands rendered unfit for man by Angra Manyu, the evil spirit of Zend Avesta. The first of these is Airyano Vaejo, bitterly cold and full of snow. If there is doubt that this refers to Kashmir, the designation of one more land as Hapta Hindu, that is Sapta-Sindhu (Punjab), should remove it.


As Girilal Jain had observed, “if it can be established that the movement of the users of the Indo-European speech in India in ancient times was from the east to the west and not vice-versa, the invasion/migration theory, as it has been propounded, cannot stand.”


After establishing precisely that on the basis of Rigveda and Avesta, Talageri proceeds to present some more evidence from ancient Mesopotamia that could help us determine a lower limit for the Vedic Age. Once we see that the movement of Aryans has been from the east to the west within India and outside it, even the familiar facts acquire an altogether different significance.


The Mitanni, who ruled northern Iraq and Syria around the 15th century BCE, spoke Hurrite, a non-Indo-European language unrelated to Vedic Sanskrit. But their kings and other members of the ruling class bore names which were corrupted versions of Vedic names: Mittaratti (Mitratithi), Dewatti (Devatithi), Subandu (Subandhu), Indarota (Indrota), Biriamasda (Priyamedha), to mention a few. In a treaty with Hittites, they invoked Vedic gods Mitra, Varuna, Indra and Nasatyas (Asvins). A Mitanni manual on training of chariot horses by Kikkuli has words like aika (eka, one), tera (tri, three), panza (panch, five), satta (sapta, seven) na (nava, nine), vartana (vartana, turn round in the horse race). Another one has words like Babru (babhru, brown), parita (palita (grey), pinkara (pingala, red) and so on. Many centuries must have elapsed between the entry of their Vedic ancestors into West Asia and this loss of language with just a super-stratum of Vedic words.


The Kassite conquerors of Mesopotamia (c. 1677 BCE) had a Sun god Surias, perhaps also Marut and may be even Bhaga (bugas), as also a personal name Abirattas (Abhiratha).


What is notable is that the ancestral Vedic names used by the Mitanni kings, and the one known Kassite name, all belong to the names which are common to the Avesta and the Late Books of Rigveda. So the ancestors of the Mitanni and Kassites must have migrated from northwestern India in the period of the Late Books. This places Late Books of Rigveda in the late third millennium BCE at the latest. The Middle and the Early books of Rigveda must have been composed much earlier. Please note that this is the lower limit for the date of Rigveda. There is nothing here that precludes a reasonably earlier date.


This makes the Rigvedic Age contemporaneous with the Indus Valley culture. Far from being the destroyers of Harappa and Mohenjodaro, Vedic Aryans turn out to be the architects of those great cities. This is what Girilal Jain meant when he said that in course of time Talageri’s research can compel the revision of the history not only of Indian, but also world civilization.


Talageri’s book makes fascinating reading for those who are familiar with and interested in the subject. That, looked at from the opposite end, is also the biggest limitation of the book. This book is meant for scholars and serious students. It is not fit for lay readers; it cannot be read just for fun. One has to know a great deal about the subject before one can appreciate the monumental feat of scholarship the author has accomplished. But one thing can be said with certainty - even those who do not agree with Talageri’s conclusion will not find it easy to disprove his data and logic and come up with an alternative explanation.

[Johnson]

Kane, the "partial Arabian roots" are from being conquered and raped, not from being indigenous, lol

[kane - THE NEXT GENERATION]

Perhaps when you say "European," you forget about southern europe. Greeks, Italians, Spainards, Portugese and Basques are "Europeans." And those people do have some influence over the genome of northwestern europe.

The Greeks and Southern Europeans are closer to arabs genetically then they are to aryans meaning south asian pure aryans, not euro mixed. The far east of europe is closer to "aryans." The middle is mixed.

[Zed]

"Originally cooked up by 19th century European scholars to serve the interests of India’s colonial masters, the theory has now been appropriated by current political ideologies whose sole purpose is to keep India weak, divided and confused. It is used to deepen and exploit regional, linguistic and racial cleavages in Indian society, deny nativity and originality to Hindu civilization, and justify later invasions: if Aryans came from outside, how can the Hindus cavil at Muslim or European invaders?"

Now this passage rings some alarm bells straight away. I'd be very interested to read a rebuttal of that study to see if he's proved his case a perfectly as that reviewer claims.

[Alia]

Kane, your views are very well thought-out, and in general I agree with all of them, but... If I have to lump Metizas and Cubans and Italians and whatnot in with Nordic and Germanic peoples, I flarking quit Nationalism. Slavs, and Croatians I can handle, Italians in a pinch if they're really on our side, and in all seriousness I may razz Pas about being not as white as I am for being a Persian but in a hypothetical serious power struggle I would realize that his people are allies... If it came down to it.

But not Cubans and Mexicans. No way. Nuh-uh. Never. I think you need four categories, Kane.

[Johnny Bravo]

Where'd you get that, Johnny?
Sry, here's the study:
A genome-wide genetic signature of Jewish ancestry perfectly separates individuals with and without full Jewish ancestry in a large random sample of European Americans
http://genomebiology.com/content/pdf/gb-2009-10-1-r7.pdf

[Draco]

All your poll options are fail.

Few people (let alone racialists) know what the difference between thymine and uracil is, or what a nucleotide consists of so even a moderate understanding of genetics is far beyond them. And thus hesitancy in discussing them; after all, can you picture Glenn "Sgt. Smirnoff" Miller lecturing on mRNA transcription? Didn't think so. Easiest just to say, "We're superior geneticlaly!".

Then again, its not something taught in school, and its really not that easy to understand (I only have an half-assed undergrad knowledge myself) so I really can't blame people for not understanding more of genetics.

But it really is the "key to life", so its beyond me why more people arent interested in acquiring a a minimally basic understanding of how they and every other single living thing on Earth operates.

[Alia]

Uracil replaces the role of Thiamine in DNA, on RNA. A nucleotide pair is one base pair, either Adenine to Thiamine, or Guanine to Cytosine.

A moderate understanding of genetics can simply be aquired through study of the simplest, Mendelian inheritance. Just understand that because of crossing over and the sheer number of genes we're talking about, you can but probably won't produce a "pure" individual out of a mixed one. That's saying nothing of epigenetic inheritance, however small a factor that might be.

I'm a racist, and I know these things, I imagine most others do as well.

[kane - THE NEXT GENERATION]

You don't need giant racial differences to justify nationalism, alia.

[Alia]

Sry, here's the study:
A genome-wide genetic signature of Jewish ancestry perfectly separates individuals with and without full Jewish ancestry in a large random sample of European Americans
http://genomebiology.com/content/pdf/gb-2009-10-1-r7.pdf

Someone should show that to Martin; I was trying to tell him just the other night that when you have mixed ancestry, you could theoretically be pure white, or pure whatever, and those yellow triangles and their distributions certainly at least support what I'm saying.

You don't need giant racial differences to justify nationalism, alia.

But what's the justification if Cubans are the same as me? If that's so, they have the blood-right to everything I have a blood-right to. Why bother restricting their immigration at all? America is a really special case because you can't just say "indigenous" - so Nationalism requires we identify the group we're protecting. If that group includes Mexicans, I quit.

[kane - THE NEXT GENERATION]

Cubans are Caucasoid. But they aren't "the same as you." In a high level of precision, there is a difference. Even an a subracial level, Cubans appear different than northwestern Europeans. I just said southern Europeans contributed to the northwestern genome. But they aren't the sole contribution. Contributions also come from the East.

[Alia]

Appear different? Cubans are really very definitely different.

http://www.ziplink.net/users/rothko/cubist/picassogirl.jpg

Jokes aside, the level of Nationalism, I believe, at its heart, is protecting one's own. At what level do you define a group as yours, Kane?

I believe that we should protect most, whoever has the most in common with us genetically. First our family, then our race, then our species, then the animal kingdom, then the entire biosphere. (Of course in practice the biosphere is going to come first because without it, animals cannot survive at all, but environmentalism is another issue.) Inversely affected and balanced, of course, by the negative effects those elements are likely to have on ourselves, and our kind, etcetera.

[Loving Bledsoe]

Cubans are Caucasoid.

Yeah?

http://www.leksikon.org/images/cuba2.jpg
http://guanabee.com/cuban_kids_12.4-thumb.jpg
http://i2.tinypic.com/t6pf9s.png

[kane - THE NEXT GENERATION]

Fidel Castro style Cubans are caucasoid.

[ZOG]

Bollocks, you simple-minded twat. The Holocaust wasn't the reason any of the Allies went to war, and no-one has ever claimed that it was. :nono:

The Wansee conference was in January 1942 after Germany declared war on the United States anyway.

[anunnaki]

Kane, as interesting as this all is, no one "out there" will give a shit. Reading about how I and some Brit are the same race will not make either one of us simply start considering the other one as family. You just have to look at Europe's history. People who are basically "the same" warring and killing each other without problem. If they can barely tolerate each other, why should they see non-Europeans as being of the same racial family? In the end what you preach simply doesn't matter and I don't think that many WNs get touchy when genetics is brought up. To them an Arab is an Arab no matter how Caucasoid he/she may be.

[kane - THE NEXT GENERATION]

A race is not a family and neither is it a nation.

But you see, deluded wn's think all Europeans should "Get along" and "ally against the common Jewish enemy." Those deluded wns don't realize that most nationalists aren't "pro-white," they are just pro a smaller ethnic group.

And it shouldn't be interesting! It should be blatantly obvious!

[Alia]

What if we're just pro-[our own survival]? As I've said, the priority should be genetically closest first, with those that threaten our groups declared enemies, even if they're closer to us than the other groups.

For example, Jews threaten white survival and prosperity, but by themselves, Cubans, I have to say, do not. By themselves, black people do not. By themselves, (in this age anyway) Muslims do not.

[Draco]

Uracil replaces the role of Thiamine in DNA, on RNA. A nucleotide pair is one base pair, either Adenine to Thiamine, or Guanine to Cytosine.

A moderate understanding of genetics can simply be aquired through study of the simplest, Mendelian inheritance. Just understand that because of crossing over and the sheer number of genes we're talking about, you can but probably won't produce a "pure" individual out of a mixed one. That's saying nothing of epigenetic inheritance, however small a factor that might be.

I'm a racist, and I know these things, I imagine most others do as well.

Without Wikipedia? Really? :weird:

[Alia]

It would have taken more than six minutes to look all that up then post it.

[Judge Jewdy]

LMAO, good poll! :lmao::lmao::lmao:

[Draco]

It would have taken more than six minutes to look all that up then post it.

Your wording is similar to wiki's.....

Uracil replaces the role of Thiamine in DNA, on RNA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dna#Properties

A fifth pyrimidine base, called uracil (U), usually takes the place of thymine in RNA

Don't be plagiarizing and shit. It took less than six minutes to check that Wiki btw.

[Alia]

If that was the only thing I'd looked up, sure. But add the applicability of Mendelian genetics to "broad knowledge" of genetics, and you have an unanswerable riddle: When asked "Which concept is important?" it is much harder to look up the answer than if you're asked, "What is this or that?" - and that's the art of reading by the way: Taking away what is important. The casual Wikipedophile isn't going to be able to do that.

[kane - THE NEXT GENERATION]

TBH, all WN is a joke. Even philosemitic WN is a joke.

Real racism has to be "hardcore." It can't be about a mass movement. A concern for respectability detracts from the core of racialism. That is what ruins the phora, white america and also the websites which blame Jews for the state of the world. These people all want to be respected and it gets into their heads.

[Edmonds Fitzgerald]

TBH, all WN is a joke. Even philosemitic WN is a joke.

Real racism has to be "hardcore." It can't be about a mass movement. A concern for respectability detracts from the core of racialism.

I agree. We need an army of racist psychopathic killers, men who are capable of commiting the most horrific atrocities without blinking or even questioning the morality of their acts.

Put ten thousand panzrams up againt a hundred thousand regular men, the Panzrams would win.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41ZSGX3F51L._SL500_AA240_.jpg

[kane - THE NEXT GENERATION]

That's probably true.

10,000 richard ramirez clones could defeat the us army.

[Zed]

Put ten thousand panzrams up againt a hundred thousand regular men, the Panzrams would win.

Would they have the bavarian orgy before or after the massacre?

[Edmonds Fitzgerald]

Would they have the bavarian orgy before or after the massacre?

I don't know, Panzram would probably fuck them alive or dead.

[kane - THE NEXT GENERATION]

The point I was really making though is that emulating the successful political movements/organizations such as Democrats, Republicans, even the ADL, will not lead to duplicated success for racialism. Watering it down will not increase its outreach, and even then, it would be watered down.

In order to be successful, racialists must target an entirely different market of rebellious and fearless people. Not the suit and tie types.

Read this book. It sums up why copy-cat "me too" movements don't work in business, and they don't work out of business either.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Ocean_Strategy

[kane - THE NEXT GENERATION]

You see Jobling I think argues against antisemitism because he is trying to reach a broader audience.

But I argue against it just because I think it is stupid as orated by current movements. It's an entirely different motivation. I still hail extremism and don't desire to act like a Republican.

[apocales]

The problem I see with many WN leaders is they water down the message to essentially being conservatives. Kane you and I disagree about Racialism I assume, but the white man's downfall is his altruism.

[kane - THE NEXT GENERATION]

I agree about racism but not so systematically defined. There is no reason that for instance, a polish person can't be racist against a german, etc.

[Judge Jewdy]

TBH, all WN is a joke. Even philosemitic WN is a joke.

Real racism has to be "hardcore." It can't be about a mass movement. A concern for respectability detracts from the core of racialism. That is what ruins the phora, white america and also the websites which blame Jews for the state of the world. These people all want to be respected and it gets into their heads.

Most of those chump ass white niggers are life's failures looking to blame others for their problems.

[il ragno]

Most of those chump ass white niggers are life's failures looking to blame others for their problems.

Kinda like the way niggers have been squealing for 400 years. Only minus the stank.

[Judge Jewdy]

Kinda like the way niggers have been squealing for 400 years. Only minus the stank.

Exactly!

[kane - THE NEXT GENERATION]

With classification systems, you get some black, some white and some gray. What you have is people who wish for a system in which all is black and white.

The problem with that is that the situation with Jews who are sometimes non-European and other non-European Caucasoids is more gray than black and white. There is no gene that all Euros show that separates them all from non-Euros. And there is a substantial amount of overlap between various non-European Cacuasoids and Europe. In fact, at their furthest distance of variation, all Caucasoids are at least as close to each other as Chinese people are to Japanese people genetically, and nobody hesitates to say that Chinese and Japanese are still the same race.

A system of hierarchical classification is the correct one. Genetic drift happens at a slow pace, nation by nation. A system which attempts to bag people into categories of "European" and "Non-European" is a false system. Dienekes and "racial reality" certainly agree with me on this point as do most old school anthropologists.

Dividing Caucasoid mankind into Mediterranean and Upper Paleolithic, and portraying Europe as a continent mixed between the two is the correct approach. Anthropologically, depigmentation is rather insignificant. All talk about "European DNA" as mutually exclusive to other Caucasoid DNA is wrong. There are tendencies and slight variations, but those variations come from mixed genetic inputs, not from Europeans being more Caucasoid or distinctly Caucasoid.

Now it is true that traditional Caucasoid nations such as Portugal in Europe and Saudi Arabia in the Middle East have seen some negroid admixture in recent history. But at the core, the Caucasoid elements of those populations are really quite similar.

That being said, to be a member of a nation is something that is inherited, and I reject globalism on all levels. The genetic similarity of Caucasoids should not lead to the destruction of national identity.

[Monsieur Chauvin]

I could certainly see why some white nationalists, especially those of Protestant Anglo-Saxon origin, would shun the study of human biodiversity from a genetic standpoint; this is probably because studying the genetic basis of racial difference often reveals a very unflattering view of the population structure as it exists within predominately white regions located throughout the Western hemisphere, especially those communities located in certain Anglophone countries. According to some very recent research, approximately 30% of Protestant Anglo-Saxons who reside within the USA have less than 10% black admixture; given the all-pervasive influence of the so-called "one-drop rule" within American society, even today, such knowledge could be potentially explosive and may result in a dramatic reduction in the actual percentage and even political influence of Anglo-Saxons who are actually considered Anglo-Saxon. Traditionally, many of the colonial assemblies of North America both during British colonization and after often determined who was white based on the so-called "blood-fraction rule" (the ancestor of the present one-drop rule), meaning that if one had more than one-eighth or one-sixteenth negro blood, one was classified as negro; if one had less than one-eighth or one-sixteenth negro blood, one was classified as being white. This, together with the widespread miscegenation practiced by the Protestant Anglo-Saxon slave masters, also helped facilitate a massive infusion of negroid blood into the white Anglo-Saxon population as well.

[HurriKANE]

I have a good question for wns.

WNs believe a few important premises
1) there exists a magical genetic line that separates "Europeans" from "Near Easterners."
2) The degree of kinship is based on how related you are to someone. Whites should unite because Whites are like an extended family. This family includes even Russians and Finns for instance.
3) Arabs and Jews are related to each other, to the point of being nearly identical. All Jews and all Arabs are "100% Semitic."

If WNs were right, the Jews and Arabs would be having a love affair. It would be the uniting of two non-white groups, and based on their ethnic genetic interests, they would be in love.

In fact the WNs are wrong on all three premises.

[Mandalore]

Nobody on this forum believes any of that shit. You're gonna need a Stormfront sock for answers like that.

[Johnson]

because you're fucking retarded and misinformed

[HurriKANE]

i think wns ruined anti-semitism for me.

It's true that Jews never shut the fuck up about persecution, but I spent all my time defending them because wns are even more annoying.

[XCaliber]

WNs are retarded. Every other post on stormfront has to be a sarcastic post about multiculturalism or muds with some stupid little smiley.

Example: Yea, we really need diversity, don't we guys? :rolleyes:

[HurriKANE]

This thread is an all-star level post.

I usually don't think arrogant posts are a good thing, but this poll totally kicks ass!

[FIPS]

Arabs and Jews are related to each other, to the point of being nearly identical. All Jews and all Arabs are "100% Semitic."

If WNs were right, the Jews and Arabs would be having a love affair. It would be the uniting of two non-white groups, and based on their ethnic genetic interests, they would be in love.
.

I guess you've never spent much time in the home of any jews married 30 plus years. They've got the wall, barbed wire, daggers in the eyes, hatred, fear, loathing, you name it. I remember once watching "the mother" swear at "the father" trying to change a light bulb on a ladder and finally punching him in the kidneys because he nignored her, whereupon he said "Fuck you, Sarah!", and tried to knee her in the tits without falling off.

Jews and Arabs behave EXACTLY as if they were coupled together for hundreds of years.

.

[apocales]

I have a good question for wns.

WNs believe a few important premises
1) there exists a magical genetic line that separates "Europeans" from "Near Easterners."
2) The degree of kinship is based on how related you are to someone. Whites should unite because Whites are like an extended family. This family includes even Russians and Finns for instance.
3) Arabs and Jews are related to each other, to the point of being nearly identical. All Jews and all Arabs are "100% Semitic."

If WNs were right, the Jews and Arabs would be having a love affair. It would be the uniting of two non-white groups, and based on their ethnic genetic interests, they would be in love.

In fact the WNs are wrong on all three premises.

obscure blogs does not equal real life unfortunately.

[EinsatzGrenadier]

This thread is an all-star level post.

I usually don't think arrogant posts are a good thing, but this poll totally kicks ass!

Yes. A special thread. Extra special.

[KhorneBerserker]

What is the question? But anyway, I'll answer your points.

I have a good question for wns.

WNs believe a few important premises
1) there exists a magical genetic line that separates "Europeans" from "Near Easterners."

There isn't. No White Nationalist except maybe Greeks believes in that shit. It's obvious to anyone that most of Western Turkey is inhabited by pretty much the same people as the people that exist in Greece. Of course, the problem is that all of Turkey was Turkified. The Turks were originally a Turkic tribe, not unlike the Mongols, who adopted Islam and then imposed Turkish language, culture, and Islam on much of Anotalia.

The problem stems from that the Ottoman Empire was a multiracial Empire, and Anatolia was multiracial before the Turks came. There's nigger, dravid, semite, armenoid, arab, caucasian, and full blown central asian chick all mixed into Anatolia. I've actually been to Turkey, and one village you'll find blond haired, blue eyed Eurasians, the next village you'll find Arabs, and then the next village you'll find guys that look like Dr.Oz.

Greece isn't exactly the epitome of racial purity, but it's not nearly as bad as that. There's a Greek "look" that I'd consider to be Greek and nothing else. Turks, on the other hand, are truly a mixed bag.

What you also need to understand is while yeah, I, as a central European, have little in common with Greeks, I can at least relate to a semi-common history and culture. There's a Greek family and a Turk family around here, and they actually look similar physically, and it's hard to tell the difference... until the holidays roll around and the Turks have women dancing with scarves, and they're pulling out their scimitars. I stopped by for a visit and felt pretty uncomfortable.

Then, there is the whole Islam religion that Turks tend to have. Gangs of Greeks don't go around roughing up women for not wearing burkas... Turks do.

The problem with your near Eastern argument is that no one would have a problem accepting Near Easterners if they weren't turned into Turks.


2) The degree of kinship is based on how related you are to someone. Whites should unite because Whites are like an extended family. This family includes even Russians and Finns for instance.

White Nationalists (I'm not one) aren't the first to believe this. Many top ranking Nazis believed this. Hell, even Hitler believed this, though he generally had plans to turn the Russians into the redskins of Europe.

Europe does share a common heritage, and a common culture. I've never seen a convincing argument that tells me otherwise. You're also not considering geopolitics, nor the history of it. Historically, Europe was quite intertwined politically since the fall of the Roman Empire.


3) Arabs and Jews are related to each other, to the point of being nearly identical. All Jews and all Arabs are "100% Semitic."

Most WNs believe that the kikes are Khazars, which were a Turkic people. Come on, you should know that.

But surely, some of the blame can be placed on the kikes themselves, who refer to any criticism of them as "anti-semitism"?


If WNs were right, the Jews and Arabs would be having a love affair. It would be the uniting of two non-white groups, and based on their ethnic genetic interests, they would be in love.

Not really, because of the deep divide culturally and religiously. This is manifested as a reality in the Balkans. Everyone knows that Albanians, Serbs, and Croats are all fucking related to one another, but there's deep religious and cultural resentment. That sort of cultural resentment doesn't really exist in other places. There's no cultural resentment between a Portuguese, an Englishmen and a Swede. Sure, it exists on border states, but Hitler already showed us that European can be united under a strongman. Even the German-hating French because dick suckers of the first strongman that put them in line.


In fact the WNs are wrong on all three premises.

What was your question again?

I'm not a White Nationalist. I'm a racist, White supremacist that thinks niggers, spics and mestizos aren't American, can't be trusted with running anything in America, and shouldn't even be in America. I think that at this rate, America will become Brazil, or worse, South Africa, and there's probably no stopping it. I also think all non-Christian Caucasoid immigration should be stopped, and at least three thirds of the South Asians and Indochinese/pacific islanders expelled.
I also think that Muslims can never be trusted again in our territory because of our kike lobby getting our big noses pushed into their business.

You have to prove what you say, Kane. You have to show evidence that the unmixed Portuguese and the Saudi Arabians are the same ethnic group (haplogroups say otherwise, by the way).You can't just say it and expect everyone to believe you.

[HurriKANE]

haplogroup mapping isn't a good standard. Most of those haplogroups existed before racial groups did, and they disappear and mutate randomly. There is a lot of overlap between mediterranean populations using these haplogroups, but it still isn't a good standard.

You need to look at autosomal DNA (the entire genome) to know how related two populations are.

Saudi Arabians are not "near eastern" though many could marginally fit the Mediterranean classification physically.

Historically, Europe was quite intertwined politically since the fall of the Roman Empire.

Yeah but Slavs/Eurasians weren't really part of that. It's really only western europe that has that history, even though southern Europeans are different in appearance.

I don't agree that most WNs view Jews as Khazars. It is only Christian identity people who do that. Most WNs think Jews are Arabs.

even Hitler believed this

Hitler did not believe Slavs were a desirable part of his aryan race.

[HurriKANE]

Like I said haplogroup mapping isn't the best method, but if you look around the mediterranean region, the near east and southern europe have most of the same haplogroups. They just have them in different proportions.

http://bellsouthpwp.net/b/e/bencragun/ben42/Y%20Haplogroups%20of%20Europe%20001.jpg

Notice how Germans have a lot of brown and Slavs a lot of yellow.

[KhorneBerserker]

haplogroup mapping isn't a good standard. Most of those haplogroups existed before racial groups did, and they disappear and mutate randomly. There is a lot of overlap between mediterranean populations using these haplogroups, but it still isn't a good standard.

You need to look at autosomal DNA (the entire genome) to know how related two populations are.

Saudi Arabians are not "near eastern" though many could marginally fit the Mediterranean classification physically.


So what's your point?


Yeah but Slavs/Eurasians weren't really part of that. It's really only western europe that has that history, even though southern Europeans are different in appearance.

Depends on what Slavs that you mean. Central Slavs, Poles and Southern Slavs were all intertwined with Europe, Ukranians/Russians generally weren't until recently.


I don't agree that most WNs view Jews as Khazars. It is only Christian identity people who do that. Most WNs think Jews are Arabs.


Most people in general think Jews are related to Arabs, because for some fucking reason, people actually believe the modern kikes are the ancient Kikes, and thus, native to Israel.

Again, the Kikes themselves are to blame for this confusion.

Out of curiosity, what do you think a Ashkenazi Jew is?


Hitler did not believe Slavs were a desirable part of his aryan race.
[/quote]

No, but he planned to Germanicized them, not exterminate them. He didn't plan to Germanicize the niggers in his African territories.

[HurriKANE]

The Polish accent resembles the Russian accent more than the German accent.

History of Europe in high school hardly teaches about Poland. Poles are tied more to Ukrainians. Just because they're Catholic doesn't mean they are part of the Western mindset.

[Heinrich Himmler]

I believe that Hitler was planning on Germanicizing the more Nordic-looking Slavs. The more Alpinoid- and Mongol-looking Slavs he was planning on using as slave labor for the Greater German Reich.

[KhorneBerserker]

That's a simplified map. There's different divisions of haplogroups that generally tell you an ethnic group. The J found in Europe is J2, and it's only found in low levels outside of Europe. The J that's found in the Middle East is J1, which is not really found in Europe above 5%.

This is J1, which is associated with Arabs:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f2/Distribution_Haplogroup_J1_Y-DNA.svg/800px-Distribution_Haplogroup_J1_Y-DNA.svg.png

This is J2, which is probably Mesopotamiam:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/18/Distribution_Haplogroup_J2_Y-DNA.svg/800px-Distribution_Haplogroup_J2_Y-DNA.svg.png

They're both the same letter, but it actually makes a big difference. But even the difference between R1b1b and R2b2b makes the difference between a Nord and a nigger.

You're right, Haplogroups aren't a great indicator, though.

Like I said haplogroup mapping isn't the best method, but if you look around the mediterranean region, the near east and southern europe have most of the same haplogroups. They just have them in different proportions.

http://bellsouthpwp.net/b/e/bencragun/ben42/Y%20Haplogroups%20of%20Europe%20001.jpg


Notice how Germans have a lot of brown and Slavs a lot of yellow. Meds are more diverse in Y chrosomome. This is because Meds were the founders, and Germans and Slavs were the extension of the founders. Meds were the "forefathers" of other Caucasoids.

You're also neglecting the fact that Med areas were also the areas where large, multicultural empires flourished.

[HurriKANE]

I honestly think Hitler didn't really believe in his race theories, except for wanting to take Jews out (though the holocaust may be exaggerated).

The fact that Croats denied they were Slavs and he went along with it tells me that Hitler was really a politician.

I do think Hitler hated Poles but not for the reason he gave.

[KhorneBerserker]

History of Europe in High School barely teaches about Ireland, too, because both Poland and Ireland have been fucking irrelevant.

Poland being under the Catholic church made all the difference, though.


The Polish accent resembles the Russian accent more than the German accent.

History of Europe in high school hardly teaches about Poland. Poles are tied more to Ukrainians. Just because they're Catholic doesn't mean they are part of the Western mindset.

[XCaliber]

I honestly think Hitler didn't really believe in his race theories, except for wanting to take Jews out (though the holocaust may be exaggerated).

The fact that Croats denied they were Slavs and he went along with it tells me that Hitler was really a politician.

I do think Hitler hated Poles but not for the reason he gave.

Hitler was definately a racialist who understood the realities of human tribal differences. However, he WAS a politician who made exceptions according to what benefited him and the Germans at the time. It's like how he refered to Japanese as "honourary Aryans" because he needed them as an ally.

[XCaliber]

I believe that Hitler was planning on Germanicizing the more Nordic-looking Slavs. The more Alpinoid- and Mongol-looking Slavs he was planning on using as slave labor for the Greater German Reich.

It's hard to say exactly who he was planning to Germanize. I've read before that he was planning to force the more nordic looking Slavs into servitude towards German immigrants and allow them to slowly get absorbed. As for the Mongol Slavs, he was going to send them to Siberia, or just put a bullet into their heads.

[KhorneBerserker]

Hitler had an odd view of survival of the fittest. He literally believed that anyone that was a Communist was a defect. So when large droves of Czechs, Poles, Serbs and Russians accepted Communism, his logical conclusion was that these populations were defects. Slovaks, Croats, Bosnians, Bulgarians, Rusyns, and Ukranians all rejected Communism before Hitler came to power, and were looked favorably upon.

I honestly think Hitler didn't really believe in his race theories, except for wanting to take Jews out (though the holocaust may be exaggerated).

The fact that Croats denied they were Slavs and he went along with it tells me that Hitler was really a politician.

I do think Hitler hated Poles but not for the reason he gave.

[HurriKANE]

Actually, Hitler and Ukranians distrusted each other even though the Ukrainians also distrusted Stalin.

The relationship between Hitler and the Ukraine was not seeing eye to eye.

Poles are so not a part of Western civilization.

[KhorneBerserker]

Actually, Hitler and Ukranians distrusted each other even though the Ukrainians also distrusted Stalin.

Yeah, but the Ukranian Waffen SS was mobilized way before the Russian.


Poles are so not a part of Western civilization.

http://97.74.65.51/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=14866

What do you think of that, then?

[XCaliber]

http://97.74.65.51/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=14866

What do you think of that, then?

The Turkish invasion of Europe was an invasion of all of Europe. It doesn't mean that Poland is Western civilization.

[KhorneBerserker]

I just thought it was a bunch of Polaks trying to fit in.

The Turkish invasion of Europe was an invasion of all of Europe. It doesn't mean that Poland is Western civilization.

[HurriKANE]

Alliances change all the time. Hitler allied with Arabs for instance.

Culturally, Poles are not only Slavic in theory but also in the way they act.

[6KILLER]

The Turkish invasion of Europe was an invasion of all of Europe. It doesn't mean that Poland is Western civilization.
The Turkish invasion of Europe started when Modu leader of the Xiongnu annexed the Tarim basin and slaughtered the Yuezhi (Tocharians) in 203 BC. Their descendants the Huns slaughtered the Eastern Alans in 371 A.D. The Alans were the As or Aesir that Kriger wrote about on another thread, As was their name for each other; Alan comes from the Chinese name for them Alanliou. Most of the Alans were absorbed by the Vandals. The Norman invasion of England was as much Alan as it was Norman, as the Normans acquired the equestrian lifestyle and skills of the Alans who ruled Brittany, largely through intermarriage. Richard the Fearless married his daughter Hawise to the Duke of Brittany. This was the beginning of the Norman cavalry. William the Plunderer grew up in the court of the Duke of Brittany.

[XCaliber]

I just thought it was a bunch of Polaks trying to fit in.

:lmao: Exactly.

[XCaliber]

The Turkish invasion of Europe started when Modu leader of the Xiongnu annexed the Tarim basin and slaughtered the Yuezhi (Tocharians) in 203 BC. Their descendants the Huns slaughtered the Eastern Alans in 371 A.D. The Alans were the As or Aesir that Kriger wrote about on another thread, As was their name for each other; Alan comes from the Chinese name for them Alanliou. Most of the Alans were absorbed by the Vandals. The Norman invasion of England was as much Alan as it was Norman, as the Normans acquired the equestrian lifestyle and skills of the Alans who ruled Brittany, largely through intermarriage. Richard the Fearless married his daughter Hawise to the Duke of Brittany. This was the beginning of the Norman cavalry. William the Plunderer grew up in the court of the Duke of Brittany.

I meant the Ottoman invasion in the 1500s. I have no idea who the Alans are I am checking up on them right now. I've heard of them before.

[6KILLER]

I meant the Ottoman invasion in the 1500s. I have no idea who the Alans are I am checking up on them right now. I've heard of them before.

Here's a link for you: http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Religions/iranian/Zarathushtrian/Oric.Basirov/origin_of_the_iranians.htm

[FIPS]

I honestly think Hitler didn't really believe in his race theories, except for wanting to take Jews out (though the holocaust may be exaggerated).

The fact that Croats denied they were Slavs and he went along with it tells me that Hitler was really a politician.

I do think Hitler hated Poles but not for the reason he gave.
.

Wrong! He convinced me the last time I saw him, January 15, 1971, an overcast day in the dive cantina at El Rosario, having come down from the Sierra Rancho (the locals seemed to know him simply as "the old German"), that everything he had said he really believed. He died before his birthday that year.

.